Towing with a 620Ti

Grant620 · Post by **Grant620** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:30 pm

Hi
anybody towed another car with a 620Ti?
Is it stable?
Does it have the needed oomph?

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:35 pm

MGjohn towed my 820 on a trialer with his 620Ti, seemed ok for a short run, could porbably speed it up a little on known roads / dual carraigeways...

obviously werent driving terribly fast, but his was a braked trailer also.

Grant620 · Post by **Grant620** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:38 pm

Did it pull ok though?
Seriously thinking of buying another Ti now.. LOL!

Drew · Post by **Drew** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:15 pm

yeah my Ti was great for towing.

Drew

Anthonyti · Post by **Anthonyti** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:32 pm

200 bhp not enough for towing

mach1rob · Post by **mach1rob** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:37 pm

Blimey my old 620 Si towed ok and that was a measly Honda lump, so Ti would have no bother! The Vitty coped fine, infact 99% of the time I usually forgot something was attached to the back of it!

Null_Byte · Post by **Null_Byte** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:01 pm

Grant620 wrote:Did it pull ok though?
Seriously thinking of buying another Ti now.. LOL!

It's a 200bhp car Grant, how many trains were you thinking of pulling? :p

Actually thats not altogether true as torque wins on towing, probably a 620 derv would be a better tow car....

Also don't forget you want as much weight as possible in the tow car. A 1300Kg dog with a 2000kg tail is a recipie for disaster....

Grant620 · Post by **Grant620** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:03 pm

Was gonna fill it with hifi anyhow

In theory of course, Ti would be ideal as it has the torques... Also they are fairly economic if given respect.

Null_Byte · Post by **Null_Byte** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:13 pm

Would think the derv develops more torque further down the rev range which is where it is most handy for towing.

If you really want a good two car something like my '76 SIII would be hard to beat, infact they did a promo a while back with one towing a 60 ton train

Thing is tho, at least with the Ti when your done towing you can get back home pretty sharpish

if given respect.

you will have to remind me again what that means....

Sheaf · Post by **Sheaf** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:24 pm

I'd have thought the only issue would be if the boost wasn't modulated. Not sure I'd want to be towing something with a car where the boost comes in really quick. Something with a bit more constant torque would be a lot smoother and safer I'd have thought.

Null_Byte · Post by **Null_Byte** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:50 pm

Doesn't really work like that Sheaf - unless you drop the clutch and nail the gas the power comes in really smoothly on the T25 setup at least.

Even without the BMV - never struck me as a turbo "kick" if anything it feels more like a lazy V6 where the power comes in smoothly and consistantly - Rover did a fantastic job on that front. Maybe also with the 600 being a heavier car it makes for a more executive barge like delivery.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:52 pm

you ever driven a rover turbo sheaf? or any turbo?

C2K · Post by **C2K** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:15 pm

Get a 406 HDi and remap it.

will-220GSiTurbo · Post by **will-220GSiTurbo** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:34 pm

torque is the way to go, but ive never worried, il pull anything with anything.
pulled my mates mk 5 escort td with my vvc 'tro and a coupe vvc with my girlfriends 1.4 8v bubble lol

clutch did smell a touch up the lickey hill!

a ti wouldnt struggle too much as long as your a decent tow-er.

Drew · Post by **Drew** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:05 pm

Null_Byte wrote:probably a 620 derv would be a better tow car...

mine wasnt, derv was crap in comparison.

Drew

Post by **Punx0r** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:06 pm

Diesels are logger slow anyway, doubling the weight isn't going to help

t16omcat · Post by **t16omcat** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:01 pm

i've towed stuff all over the country with a ti, mostly using an 'A' frame
the ti is a great tow-car imho.

main worry is the brakes, its easy to get heavy loads up to high speeds, no so easy to stop them...

MGJohn · Post by **MGJohn** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:45 pm

Scott wrote:MGjohn towed my 820 on a trialer with his 620Ti, seemed ok for a short run, could porbably speed it up a little on known roads / dual carraigeways...

obviously werent driving terribly fast, but his was a braked trailer also.

Yes Scott ~ yer tis:

The ti is an ideal car for towing ~ used several for this task and amazingly, the fuel consumption is more economical when towing a twin axle trailer than when I drive the things normally without towing stuff. You have to drive smoothly when towing and that smoothness usually equates to better fuel economy. The quality and handling of the trailer plays an important part too.

I often use an A-Frame for the task nowadays ~ you can carry one of those in the spacious boot of a ti or even more spacious one in the Montego which is another superb tow car. Here's my silver leaf turbo towing a trailer loaded with a 620ti:

The T16 turbo as already has been mentioned has a very smooth progressive power delivery and thus is a doddle for towing. On a few occasions, I used my Coupe Turbo for towing ~ I even towed a trailer loaded with a Vitesse Turbo with it on one occasion ~ no big deal ~ here it is loaded with a Montego:

MGJohn · Post by **MGJohn** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:05 am

t16omcat wrote:i've towed stuff all over the country with a ti, mostly using an 'A' frame
the ti is a great tow-car imho.

main worry is the brakes, its easy to get heavy loads up to high speeds, no so easy to stop them...

Very true ~ you MUST keep an eye on things and make allowances for braking and other road users in 'plonker' mode...

Years ago, using my MG Montego EFI, not turbo, to tow a twin axle trailer loaded with an MG Montego Turbo, cruising along the M4 my son casually mentioned that I should look at the speedometer. I had no idea of the speed I was doing ~ the set up was such that the speed, load, balance, handling and stability lulled me into a false sense of NOT going fast. Easily done so you have to be vigilant and make a conscious effort to keep the speed from creeping up as those Motorway miles pass by. I wont mention the actual speed but, lets just say we were not hanging about. Those old Montego EFis can shift ~ loaded or not.

One thing you must be wary of though. Tramlining in the nearside lanes of tarmac Motorway sections. The M25 is in my experience the worst for this ~ countless heavy commercials pound away on those tarmac lanes and form longitudinal groves that run for miles and miles. The track of the car will mount those groves and tramline a certain way whilst the different track of the loaded trailer tries to tramline in a different way. A conflict which can be quite scary! If you ever followed a caravan being towed and seen it swaying from side to side you'll know what I mean. With a heavier loaded trailer, that tramlining conflict between car and trailer can be dangerous so watch out for that on those 'grooved' Motorway sections. As soon as you pass over those old grooves onto recently resurfaced Tarmac where the grooves have not yet formed, then the 'rig' behaves perfectly with no pendulum or tramline effect.

Do watch out for that tramlining ~ it's dangerous ~ I've actually seen caravans become violently detached from their tow cars when so doing and career down motorway embankments becoming matchwood in seconds. Scary when that happens immediately in front of your car ~ I'm wary of such things now. Seen that caravan separation mullarkey on two separate occasions but, I have been driving a long time. Twice is too much anyway.

Grant620 · Post by **Grant620** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:14 am

Thanks all for your comments - very interesting...

Sheaf · Post by **Sheaf** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:07 pm

Scott wrote:you ever driven a rover turbo sheaf? or any turbo?

Yeah, I've driven a coupe turbo and been a passenger countless times in a few, both with the BMV setup and with a GBE.

The BMV was smooth, the GBE gave an almighty kick at pretty low revs... which is kind of the point of them is it not... maximum torque in one go. Personally I'd not want that if I was towing.

Obviously only does that if you floor it, but I'd imagine it'd be possible to accelerate a bit harder than you meant to and put a fair old strain on the hitch etc when it comes on boost.

calibrax · Post by **calibrax** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:52 pm

I would have thought that a ti would struggle at low rpm when going up hills while towing...

Leo · Post by **Leo** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:06 pm

calibrax wrote:I would have thought that a ti would struggle at low rpm when going up hills while towing...

Err.. just use the gearbox and change down??

Mum towed dad's Vaux Senator with her......... 2CV

It was never the same since! Fortunately she got rid of that car years ago, unfortunately dad got rid of the Senator a few years back too. That thing was a beast for towing, we had countless holidays towing huge caravan and easily doing > the limit on the open European motorways. That thing had about 200bhp (it was the 24v engine and had been remapped for more torque). and I assume similar torque so probably pretty much the same power figs as a BMV removed/GBE'd T16 turbo.

Just be careful (that I need to tell you this Grant) with launching - I don't need to tell you how weak these PG1's are!

Sheaf - don't understand why you think less torque low down is better for towing?

Post by **agw_01** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:21 pm

John, I love reading your posts because you make a pretty ordinary topic such as towing, very interesting.

Your silver Montego Turbo looks seriously smart

Post by **SubCat001** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:28 pm

A 620ti will make a fine tow car imo. Plenty of mass, torque and should cruise off boost at 60mph, so decent economy.

As for coming on boost?? I've never heard such rubbish. Such charatoristics are common to turbo diesel engines, and people seem to be of the opinion that they are excellent haulers. You dont plant your foot and launch the car when towing!

rover220 · Post by **rover220** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:31 pm

calibrax wrote:I would have thought that a ti would struggle at low rpm when going up hills while towing...

you are aware of the gearsticks funcionality arent you?

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:49 pm

any car would struggle going uphilll whilst towing in a higher gear (except for large engined beasts).

Since the Ti has been off the road, ive been blagging a lot of lifts, and hills that i could go up at 30 in 5th (without too much labouring) are unattainable for smaller cars, 1.4 polo etc...

lets not forget the Ti is a fairly capable machine eh?

Bikernut · Post by **Bikernut** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:37 pm

SubCat001 wrote: As for coming on boost?? I've never heard such rubbish. Such charatoristics are common to turbo diesel engines, and people seem to be of the opinion that they are excellent haulers. You dont plant your foot and launch the car when towing!

With my limited Diesel driving experience (220sdi) i have to agree,the diesel turbo had a far more pronounced kick when the turbo spooled up than the Ti.
Totally gutless till 2k revs aswell.Although i would imagine the common rails to be much better in this respect.

Jim

Anthonyti · Post by **Anthonyti** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:50 pm

even with a gbe boost controller this will make no difference when towing you just need to use your right foot steadily not like a lead boot

...........oh i'm towing i'd better floor it in first because thats what you do when you have a turbo come on peeps!!

Sheaf · Post by **Sheaf** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:46 pm

Ok ok, I get the point....

Just had visions of people sitting at say 2k in 3rd, hitting a hill and putting their foot down, then boost coming in suddenly and giving an unwelcome kick.

Obviously it wont be an issue though, so it's all good.

Anthonyti · Post by **Anthonyti** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:00 pm

sheafy even in that scenario 2k in third the boost is going to be mild especially if your towing matey

unless you got 50psi with twin turbos and some other form of warp max 5

fair play to you tho

calibrax · Post by **calibrax** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:28 am

rover220 wrote:
calibrax wrote:I would have thought that a ti would struggle at low rpm when going up hills while towing...
you are aware of the gearsticks funcionality arent you?

I'm talking about in 1st gear. My ti always seemed a tad sluggish when doing a hillstart, although it was fine otherwise... seemed to get a bit bogged down at low RPM, so on a steep hill in 1st it needed quite a bit of right pedal. So I just figured that with a trailer or something attached it would be even worse.

richard moss · Post by **richard moss** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:36 pm

calibrax wrote:I'm talking about in 1st gear. My ti always seemed a tad sluggish when doing a hillstart, although it was fine otherwise... seemed to get a bit bogged down at low RPM, so on a steep hill in 1st it needed quite a bit of right pedal. So I just figured that with a trailer or something attached it would be even worse.

Don't worry - drivers who know how to use a clutch properly will be fine!

I've used my LPG powered, high ratio gearbox equipped 820 sterling to tow a a car trailer with another 820 on - and it was great. The only possible downside on a 620 ti is that it may be a bit lighter (but not much) and so theoretically might not be as stable (but John's post indicates that this is not the case anyway).

Grant620 · Post by **Grant620** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:38 pm

Ti is HEAVIER than an 800!

rover220 · Post by **rover220** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:43 pm

Grant620 wrote:Ti is HEAVIER than an 800!

by much?