Engines : K Series 1.4 - Potential?

Bjorn · Post by **Bjorn** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:31 pm

What power figures have you achieved with your trusty 1.4? And how far can it be pushed?

Neil F · Post by **Neil F** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:17 pm

Hi,

Ahh, the trusty old 1.4. Potential of 300bhp+ in a Turbo Technics designed Hillclimb Elise, in a 214 with an exhaust and filter.. um about 350bhp?

Probably good for about 180bhp in NASP/Non Nitrous Oxide form if you could be bothered to spend the money on it and not go for a larger capacity bottom end. Otherwise I doubt you will see many crack a genuine 150bhp.

At the end of the day, you may as well go for a bigger capacity IMHO.

Cheers

Neil

Grant620 · Post by **Grant620** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 9:50 pm

I agree.
But it depends on how much you spend.
Filter/exhaust is likely to gain a few bhp max.

Ross9 · Post by **Ross9** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:39 am

As was said, would be expensive to get any big numbers from.

I loved my 214, had many discussions on whether it was as fast as I said it was etc, and I stil maintain it was very quick for a 1.4, as many who seen it at track days etc will agree.

RR it twice. Star Performance got it at 116 BHP and 99lb/ft of torque. (82BHP @ wheels)

6months or so later AVA in Glasgow (static rollers as opposed to a dynamic run) got it at 88.5BHP @ wheels which in comparison to other cars, ie SOHC Non-Vtec Civic 1.6, Clio 1.6 which were standard, was getting 1 or 2 BHP more @ wheels than these, fly figs from their respective manufacturers in the 110-112BHP range.

This was with a de-cat, powerflow small box mid-section, PCS stainless back box, and a K&N that had been messed about with, heatshield, relocated from where they said to put it etc.

If you've got a 214, get the brake conversion done to the bigger vented disc set up at the front, sort the suspension and best to stop around the filter and exhaust mark. The brakes and suspension were much better value per Â£ and made a lot more difference to the cars performance at rack days than the BHP increasing stuff. Anything over and above would be expensive, I looked into Cams etc, was thinking about fitting Nitrous, decided it was better to save the pennies and get a faster base car, glad I went down this route now.

Just my humble opinion.

Ross.

Post by **MarkCoupe** » Wed May 14, 2003 8:58 am

how come the 1.4 is so powerful my friend chris's 1.6dohc 16v k-series coupe is 118 bhp with filter and exhaust(111bhp standard)

Damian_Bailey · Post by **Damian_Bailey** » Wed May 28, 2003 11:04 pm

My Mk1 414Si has got the following:
Vented disc brake upgrade! (I can still overheat them though :wink:

)
Koni-Reds with MBR springs all round - big improvement on handling.
Poly bushes on front tie bars.
Icon superchip
K&N panel filter
Diamond Racing S/S cat back system 2" pipe in to twin 3" tail pipe
Custom de-cat pipe

It's fun to drive and can feel quite fast although I'm sure in reality it's not that fast. I need to R/R it to find out how many horsey's it's got.

I've still got a lightweight flywheel to fit too.

I've been seriously looking at either Throttle bodies+cams+chip+strenthening work or Eaton supercharger+whatever else is required to stop it blowing up

I must admit it'd make more sense just to by a 220 turbo but it'd be too easy and not as individual as a supercharged 1.4

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Thu May 29, 2003 1:43 am

I've been tempted to buy an SEi and see for myself how far it could be taken...

I still might, one day!

CVPiper · Post by **CVPiper** » Thu May 29, 2003 6:22 am

Post by **MarkCoupe** » Thu May 29, 2003 9:17 am

Lets not forget the actual 1.4 dohc 16v block is a hell if alot more advanced than the 1.4 ohc carb'd 8v that R5's get 300bhp with a turbo.Who'll be the first with a 250bhp+ 214sei or 414

Neil F · Post by **Neil F** » Thu May 29, 2003 10:05 am

Hi,

let's not also forget that the K-Series was designed as a lightweight engine, not a strong one, it has an alloy block with liners that have a reputation for moving...

I'm not saying it isn't going to be done, quite the opposite in fact, but there is a lot more to it than just bolting on a supercharger or turbocharger and expecting to get 250bhp plus and for it to last more than 10 mins.

Cheers

Neil

Insomniac · Post by **Insomniac** » Thu May 29, 2003 10:25 am

I'd have imagined though, that the 14. K Series block would be stronger than the 1.8 K Series?

Neil F · Post by **Neil F** » Thu May 29, 2003 10:33 am

Hi,

the liners are thicker in the 1.4, but all later blocks are the same I believe, it's possible that an early 1.4 block with a later head may be the way to go for a 1.4.

Here's the problem as I see it, the 1.4 has a small port head and not enough room for the larger valves that you could get into a 1.6/1.8 as they would make contact with the liners due to the small bore size of the 1.4 and that will ultimately affect performance. Forced induction cars still need to breathe well to make power in the same way as naturally aspirated ones.

Cheers

Neil

Ben Cole · Post by **Ben Cole** » Thu May 29, 2003 11:48 am

Marko,Tomcat wrote:Lets not forget the actual 1.4 dohc 16v block is a hell if alot more advanced than the 1.4 ohc carb'd 8v that R5's get 300bhp with a turbo.Who'll be the first with a 250bhp+ 214sei or 414

Advanced perhaps but strong no.
Also how many of the high power R5's do you know that last?

Steve220 · Post by **Steve220** » Thu May 29, 2003 2:00 pm

lol. the 300bhp ones tend to blow up down the strip at pod :lol:

I had lots of fun in my 1.4. Jonny's driven it before, i never found out what he thought of it. The 1.4 is probably the nicer out of the engine's as its slightly stronger due to the liners, as put before.
I do miss my 1.4, but my main reason for having it was a next step to my goal car. It had really good fuel economy. Making it stronger, and putting it on its limits is making a perfectly good engine more unreliable. A lot of work needs doing to the K before it can accept serious power. Its a damn good engine as it is with a couple of subtle mods. You can easily get it to 130bhp with some larger mods, i.e cams, fse, port flowing, full breathing etc.
Ste

Ross9 · Post by **Ross9** » Thu May 29, 2003 7:14 pm

A few people have mentioned the light engine making it handle well etc.

The single best thing about my old SEi was the balance, the brakes and suspension were better than the horsepower, on track it was easy to get it on, and keep it on, the limit due to this.

New car is totally the opposite, it's too fast for the brakes and suspension, makes driving it more of a challenge, but ultimately more fun, until I sort it obviously and change the brakes etc. But Im going off topic now

So, I'd say the 214 is definately a good "budget" car, and overlookd by many, after all its a 5 door family car to most people.

Induction Â£60
Exhaust Â£350
Suspension Â£300 (inc fitting)
Brakes Â£150 (inc fitting)

after that, believe me it put a lot of "better" cars to shame at track days etc.

rover400turbo · Post by **rover400turbo** » Sat May 31, 2003 10:40 am

The 1.4 block is good for 160BHP.

Free-flow exhaust system.
Fast road camshafts.
Vernier timing wheels.
Interceptor 2000 fitted to the manufacturers ECU.
Power is raised approximately 158bhp (+/- 5%) @ 6.800rpm with a very useful additional extra 20lbsft of torque.

Â£1800 - under 1K if you fit it yourself and get tuned.

For over 160BHP you are into serious amounts of work and parts !

Need forged pistons and rods and new oil ladder with bigger studs for over 160BHP.

Need a new forged crank and better liners for over 185 BHP.

You can added a turbo or super charger but big money !!

High temperature cast iron-alloy exhaust manifold.
Garrett T25 turbocharger
Forged aluminium alloy pistons.
Forged steel high performance connecting rods (changed pin centres)
Cylinder liner kit.
Cast inlet manifold and plenum chamber system.
Intercooler system.
Revised inlet air box/filter system
Gas-flowed cylinder head.
Special cylinder head gasket.
Free-flow exhaust system
New electronic engine management system.

Power is raised to approximately 220bhp (+/- 5%) @ 5,500rpm and torque has been raised from 122lbs ft @ 3,000rpm to 190lbs ft @ 3,250rpm.

Price Â£10,000 !!!, but lighter than a T serie.

OR the best for the NA engine -

Forged steel crankshaft.
Forged steel connecting rods.
Forged aluminium alloy pistons.
Free-flow exhaust system
Vernier timing wheels.
Higher rate valve springs.
Gas-flowed cylinder head with oversize valve seats, inlet and exhaust valves.
Cast alloy inlet manifold, plenum chamber and throttle elbow.
Larger throttle butterfly assembly.
Induction/filter system.
New fully mapped engine management system.

Power is raised to approximately 185bhp (+/- 5%) @ 7,500rpm with a useful increase in torque.

Â£9000 !!

rover400turbo · Post by **rover400turbo** » Sat May 31, 2003 10:55 am

So you could add 50BHP Nox with filer and exhaust, on the standard block.

BUT, you will lose non- NoX power, as you need to run a colder plug.

Also it is very easy to kill the engine on NoX, one problem is getting enough fuel into the cylinders as the Nox and fuel is sprayed in on a 'hit & miss' base !!

So if you are fitting NoX, i would still you a piggyback ECU to increase fueling and retard ignition timing as the NoX is added.

You can then use it safely, or as safe as it can be, but why spend Â£50 a refill , when if you just add cams and pulleys onto the ( exhaust , filter and piggyback ECU ) to get a constant 150 ish BHP ??

Ok the cams and pulleys are about Â£600, but i have a low mileage un used set here !! :lol:

Neil F · Post by **Neil F** » Sat May 31, 2003 11:04 am

Mike,

what spec are the cams and pulleys you have, and how much you looking for, also would you be willing to split, i.e. sell the pulleys on their own.

Cheers

Neil

Damian_Bailey · Post by **Damian_Bailey** » Sat May 31, 2003 4:08 pm

Can anyone tell me where I can get the serious bits (Like the stuff rover400turbo listed) to sort my 1.4k out.

I still haven't decided about NASP/Forced Induction as it depends on how easy the parts are to source. Information on where to get either would be appreciated.

Thanks

Neil F · Post by **Neil F** » Sat May 31, 2003 5:54 pm

Hi,

for K-Series tuning goodies, go to http://members.aol.com/DVAPower/ alternatively QED do lots of bits as does Mike Satur, PTP, etc. There's loads of bits out there, but Dave Andrews would be the first port of call every time with me.

Cheers

Neil

Damian_Bailey · Post by **Damian_Bailey** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:54 pm

That's what I thought. I've tried QED Motorsport already but they want to upgrade me to a 1.8K. They were saying they couldn't get the parts for the 1.4K. Which is a shame because they were otherwise very helpful.

WelshwarrioR25 · Post by **WelshwarrioR25** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:39 pm

Which cams and how much??

andy stewart · Post by **andy stewart** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:36 am

1400 k- series @ 158 Bhp

andy stewart · Post by **andy stewart** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 11:42 am

rover400turbo wrote:So you could add 50BHP Nox with filer and exhaust, on the standard block.

BUT, you will lose non- NoX power, as you need to run a colder plug.

Also it is very easy to kill the engine on NoX, one problem is getting enough fuel into the cylinders as the Nox and fuel is sprayed in on a 'hit & miss' base !!

So if you are fitting NoX, i would still you a piggyback ECU to increase fueling and retard ignition timing as the NoX is added.

You can then use it safely, or as safe as it can be, but why spend Â£50 a refill , when if you just add cams and pulleys onto the ( exhaust , filter and piggyback ECU ) to get a constant 150 ish BHP ??

Ok the cams and pulleys are about Â£600, but i have a low mileage un used set here !!

Nos isn't hit and miss - no need for piggy back ECU - it's not easyer to kill an enigne on NOS - running the colder plug doesn't loose the power -

The only kit that should be fitted to a 1400 is a dry kit which is NITROUS only - not fuel aswell - so no need to change anything...

Kit comes with fuel enrichment device - no need for ECU - works of fuel return....

NOS super cools the piston crowns, valves, and cylinder head, so protects engine internals....

Colder plugs didn't loose any power for me - exactly the same rolling road results before and after.

Andy

Bjorn · Post by **Bjorn** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:31 pm

As I may well have a vested interest in the capabilities of the 1.4 mpi k series (Metro GTi track car), what would you say you would need for 125 - 130bhp - and how would this hold up against bigger cars etc. GTE, Pug GTi etc - v Metro with 120ish bhp?

Ross9 · Post by **Ross9** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:04 am

A Metro with 120 BHP would be a very potent track car if the handlign and braking were sorted.

My 214 SEi before I had the coupe turbo RR @ 116 BHP, 102 lb/ft,m it also hd a full suspension kit, uprated bushes, and the bigger front brake conversion from the 220.

This was good enough to see off a lot of "performance" cars round a track.

I have a 2minute 5 sec video of it beating a 3.0 Twin Turbo Supra round a short track if anyone close enough would like to meet and collect it.

Post by **MarkCoupe** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:02 pm

Dont take this the wrong way but if your 1.4 was faster than a supra round a track(i take it there were 0 straights) why get a lowly 220 Turbo?

Jonny 5 · Post by **Jonny 5** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:19 pm

Marko,Tomcat wrote:Dont take this the wrong way but if your 1.4 was faster than a supra round a track(i take it there were 0 straights) why get a lowly 220 Turbo?

Cos he can drive and wants to beat even more cars

1796cc GTi Se · Post by **1796cc GTi Se** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:42 pm

To get 125-130 from a metro, i think you will need something along the lines of a janspeed exhaust manifold, full exhaust system and decat. some sort of induction kit. maybe a set of VVC exhaust cams and an FSE.

A few people have done this on the PMC forum, and i think this is what they did to get the figures you want.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/metroclub/

pengy666 · Post by **pengy666** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:12 am

had a 1.4 gti now im putting it into a mini i put a 1.8 head on it when my cam belt tensioner sheared and i bent 12 valves and it was no quicker ,then i found a pinhole between 2 and 3 pot so had to spend 30 quid getting old head swapped threw 1.8 head in a bush when i moved house lol the pulleys for the 1.8 cost me 75 notes i should have just fixed the origonal head in the first place i would like more info on throttle bodies and a supercharge kit for my 1.4 tho HEEELLLLPPP ! please

Gazza · Post by **Gazza** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:56 pm

Neil F wrote:Hi,

Ahh, the trusty old 1.4. Potential of 300bhp+ in a Turbo Technics designed Hillclimb Elise, in a 214 with an exhaust and filter.. um about 350bhp?

Cheers

Neil

..and for those who doubt its existance...

http://www.horizonmotorsport.co.uk/html/specialist.html

ml.williams · Post by **ml.williams** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:57 am

rover400turbo wrote:The 1.4 block is good for 160BHP.

Need a new forged crank and better liners for over 185 BHP.

the crank for the K was tested not long back to find out why so many tned engines failed it was found the standered K crank was far better ballenced than the forged verstions and good for 300bhp and 9K rpm

114gta · Post by **114gta** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:51 pm

Yeah, the standard crank is near perfect and good for up to 9k! IMO these engines have great power for the size, but as they're designed as lightweight engines its much easier to just drop in an 1800 k16 lump, although it is still alot of effort to get them far over 200bhp! But if you do this to a metro, then yes its a serious track car, as mr williams above will surely be able to tell you!!

Check his motor out: http://www.mgw-racing.com Click the 'our racing' tab, then take a gorp at the vid!!

ml.williams · Post by **ml.williams** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 5:53 pm

114gta wrote:Yeah, the standard crank is near perfect and good for up to 9k! IMO these engines have great power for the size, but as they're designed as lightweight engines its much easier to just drop in an 1800 k16 lump, although it is still alot of effort to get them far over 200bhp! But if you do this to a metro, then yes its a serious track car, as mr williams above will surely be able to tell you!! Check his motor out: http://www.mgw-racing.com Click the 'our racing' tab, then take a gorp at the vid!!

lol thats not my car.

i have amk3 214Si thought i wouldent mind that car lol

114gta · Post by **114gta** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:36 pm

he he, thought you were a different M.williams! :mrgreen: