ttrw2 2/400 Brembo Big Brake Kit

[Berger]

Kevin, your pad shims will be lifting at the edges in your calipers. When I fitted my Ferodo's 3 out of 4 slotted straight in, one needed a tickle on the edge with a grinding disc and then plopped in. Don't hammer them in or anything lol.

After the god awful faff of removing the Torx bits to get the pads shims out in readiness for my rebuild, I noticed that a number of my pad shims weren't flat, so I suspect they warp with age. I've flattened mine out so hopefully that will reduce the chances of me having a similar problem once everything is re-assembled.

They seem to warp, then brake dust gets behind them and makes it worse.

Braver man than me trying to remove the torx bits, I just didnt bother and flattened the shims as best I could, squidged most of the dust out the side.

[C2K]

My shims were all flat bar one anyway.

[James ZS]

After seeing peoples pics of these fitted I bought some calipers yesterday, so just got to save some cash for the kit now by that time fingerscrossed there may be a second gb on the go

[SammyP]

After seeing peoples pics of these fitted I bought some calipers yesterday, so just got to save some cash for the kit now by that time fingerscrossed there may be a second gb on the go

In for 2nd group buy.

[C2K]

Hi guys.

As per previous comments if worst comes to worst the kits will be available on a one-off basis but as increased expense.

It would be improper to host a second GB at the current time, until we know everyone from the first GB is satisfied within reason. All kits have been dispatched, and we're awaiting feedback from the parties who've received them.

[James ZS]

After seeing peoples pics of these fitted I bought some calipers yesterday, so just got to save some cash for the kit now by that time fingerscrossed there may be a second gb on the go

In for 2nd group buy.

Thats a start Ive got the money waiting

[< KEVIN >]

Ok i've bled my front brakes twice now and getting a fair amount of pedal travel, about 2-3 inches before they start to bite in, the same as the 620ti setup really.
There is no ABS on the car so bleeding up should be pretty straight forward.
The rears are drums, yes drums lol, the nipples have round off but new ones are on order, but i haven't disturbed them so i can't see them making an improvement, unless the there is air trapped in there from the last time the shoes were done, about 12 months ago

I'll bleed the rears over the weekend and see if it improves any.
I had the impression this set up would firm the pedal right up, but i'll reserve just now untill i give the rears a go.

Does anyone else share the same problem?

[tompinney]

Does anyone else share the same problem?

I'll be able to answer that when I fit mine on Saturday under the guidance of Simon (and Rob?).

[Cableguy]

Ok i've bled my front brakes twice now and getting a fair amount of pedal travel, about 2-3 inches before they start to bite in, the same as the 620ti setup really.
There is no ABS on the car so bleeding up should be pretty straight forward.
The rears are drums, yes drums lol, the nipples have round off but new ones are on order, but i haven't disturbed them so i can't see them making an improvement, unless the there is air trapped in there from the last time the shoes were done, about 12 months ago

I'll bleed the rears over the weekend and see if it improves any.
I had the impression this set up would firm the pedal right up, but i'll reserve just now untill i give the rears a go.

Does anyone else share the same problem?

Pedal will be lower than normal until they have bed in , the pads will be flexing. Give it a few miles , and yes bleeding the rears dependant on how much fluid you lost is a must, get some new cylinders

[ttrw2]

Yep, as I said in the instructions with the kit - the pedal is firm with bite right at the top. They've been fitted to three 220's (mine w/o ABS and 2 x 220's w/ABS) that I know of with the same result.

There's air in the system my friend.

EDIT: Actually thinking about it one of the 220's needed a new m/cyl as couldn't get a good pedal.

[Cableguy]

Oh , kevins is a 216 conversion too so will have a smaller MC ! 22.2mm as opposted to 23.8mm

Kevin , i have a 23.8mm one availible from a ZR

[< KEVIN >]

Oh , kevins is a 216 conversion too so will have a smaller MC ! 22.2mm as opposted to 23.8mm

Kevin , i have a 23.8mm one availible from a ZR

I think you've nailed it Sir.

[Cableguy]

Oh , kevins is a 216 conversion too so will have a smaller MC ! 22.2mm as opposted to 23.8mm

Kevin , i have a 23.8mm one availible from a ZR

I think you've nailed it Sir.

PM me for price

[ttrw2]

Std 216 ran what? 262mm vented disc setup? So that's a 53.7mm piston, giving a m/cyl:piston ratio of 5.89:1 with the 22.2mm m/cyl.

Running the 22.2mm m/cyl with these calipers (38/42mm pistons) gives 5.66:1 ratio. A ~4% difference. This isn't the cause of the long pedal.

[vinny19791]

Just thought id add my 2p worth to the thread

I have these brakes fitted to my GSi and I think they are fantastic.

I also have a stock 262mm setup on my 216 GTi and the difference is unbelievable.

When berger took myself and marc out in the car the braking was extremely impressive.

I almost put the GF mcdonalds through the screen the other day when I " showed " her them

[< KEVIN >]

I'll bleed the rears and go from there, could be air after all or a leaky cylinder

[C2K]

Kevin,

Without teaching you to suck eggs if you've disturbed part of the system you need to bleed all of it. After fitting my GTi6 front calipers to the HDi I found air at the rears despite not touching them - however I do have ABS. Do a full system bleed and report back, as Rob quite rightly points out I can't see the MCyl causing the issue.

With regards to one of the 220s needing a new master cylinder, it was Berger's but it died during the fitting of the 282's, it didn't take too kindly to being stroked during the bleeding despite being careful. The new master cylinder was procured because of that, not due to the Brembodge.

Not a jot of sponge in mine with ABS. Rob and I both drove each others and the pedal feel only differs a touch. His is a touch sharper. It took at least three bleeding sessions to get the air out of mine, but I had lines and rears off too. The 3rd bleeding session found lots of air, but didn't really make a discernable improvement as they were already excellent!

Edit: Cableguy's point is valid. My pedal firmed up further after the pads/discs mated properly.

[< KEVIN >]

As i said i'll bleed the rears, i'm no knocking the set up at all, am assured its top notch and believe it is.
I didn't know disturbing the fronts would upset the rears really.

[C2K]

I'm confident you'll find air in there somewhere mate, i'd be pretty miffed if my pedal move 2-3 inches before it did anything.

I used to find the non-ABS set-ups on Rovers dangerously sharp.

[220Lee]

Are you back then?

[1994 BRG Coupe]

When I changed mine over I clamped the hoses before removing the old calipers. Once the new callipers were fitted, working one side at a time, I opened the bleed nipple and with the aid of my glamourus assistant pressing the brake pedal released the clamp when the system was under pressure. continued bleeding with the open/close spanner method (also using a bleed hose with a non return valve). I only bled the fronts and every thing seems fine. Worth noting too that its important to keep an eye on the fluid level as if it drops too low you draw air into the master cylinder and distribute it into the rest of the system. Sorry if its stating the obvious however sometimes these are the things that get overlooked

[Berger]

When I changed mine over I clamped the hoses before removing the old calipers. Once the new callipers were fitted, working one side at a time, I opened the bleed nipple and with the aid of my glamourus assistant pressing the brake pedal released the clamp when the system was under pressure. continued bleeding with the open/close spanner method (also using a bleed hose with a non return valve). I only bled the fronts and every thing seems fine. Worth noting too that its important to keep an eye on the fluid level as if it drops too low you draw air into the master cylinder and distribute it into the rest of the system. Sorry if its stating the obvious however sometimes these are the things that get overlooked

Alright if you have rubber hoses, you cant clamp the braided ones so easily

[ttrw2]

Right, update and hopefully the final one:

ZS kits are all shipped and delivered according to courier tracking.

Apart from Kiwi-Express oversea shipment, TomPinney fitting his at C2k's this wknd, and 220Lee collecting next week - we're done?

Please continue to post your progress in here, any probs/issues/queries/suggestions for improvements then fire away! Here to helps and all that. Thanks to all involved for not messing around with payments, intent, etcs - you are a pleasure to deal with!

Give it a month or so for more kits to get fitted/feedback and we'll look at GB Part Deux.

Cheers,
Rob

[C2K]

As above, if you guys could please keep us posted how you get on with fitments, issues, general comments on their effectiveness and things you'd maybe like to see done differently etc we'd be most appreciative. The pair of us are readily available to answer any fitting queries either through here or by PM - or if it takes you can contact us more directly.

Lee - as per PM, ready when you are.
Tom - ready to go this weekend.
Mike - Custody as agreed.

It's been a pleasure gents. I'd like to thank you all for the speedy payments when requested, straightforward transactions, and excellent communication from each and every one of you - i've never failed to reach anybody when required.

Thanks for your patience with us throughout this GB, and apologies to the ZS owners for the slight unforeseen delay at the 11th hour.

Oh, and:


Simon

[James ZS]

Please continue to post your progress in here, any probs/issues/queries/suggestions for improvements then fire away! Here to helps and all that. Thanks to all involved for not messing around with payments, intent, etcs - you are a pleasure to deal with!

Give it a month or so for more kits to get fitted/feedback and we'll look at GB Part Deux.

Cheers,
Rob

Count me in got the money burning a hole in my pocket lol.

[< KEVIN >]

Bled the rears up today, still the same.

How much travel should there be when sitting idle, could it be the master cylinder after all?

[C2K]

Kevin,

On mine the pedal literally moves to bring on the lights, then you feel them bite. There probably is still air in mine, i've not checked them in a long while. I fitted Tom Pinney's with him today (i'll let him post the pics up) and had a mare of a time getting the passenger union to seal due to a pocket of porosity local to the union boss. We also replaced the front lines so there was lots of air to be found. Did a bleed, took it round the block, did another bleed and found more air. Found air at the rear nipple, drivers side, after a short run but there was nowhere to cycle the ABS local to me so it's something on his to-do list. Tom has already commented that they're better than his Ti setup that came off, and has texted me to say they've improved with the miles he's put on the car today post-fitment. They should continue to do so as the pads and discs mate but he knows he needs to bleed his a third time.

When you are braking, if you brake/release/brake again in quick succession does the pedal feel differ appreciably? Yours is a non-abs drummed rear car which probably has a number of things different to us from brake bias valve to master cylinder. All I would suggest is to put a good amount of miles on the car and then do a round-the-car bleed to see what shows up. You should be feeling the increased braking effort nonetheless? The only other thing I should ask is were the pistons fully retracted before you started bleeding an empty caliper? I made sure mine and Tom's were. Rob's pedal, from what I remember, was epicly sharp.

Not the case for you I know, but with the ABS cars after the second round you're wasting your time til you've put a good few miles on the car and forced the air to congregate behind the nipples. When I bled mine for the third time, I got air bubbles over an inch long in the hose from three out of four nipples at the front, bearing in mind they'd previously run fluid out clean and clear.

Simon

[ttrw2]

Bled the rears up today, still the same.

How much travel should there be when sitting idle, could it be the master cylinder after all?

Sorry if you've already said, but what bleeding method are you using?

[< KEVIN >]

Using one man method with a vissibleed one man tool and the diagonal sequence.

[ttrw2]

I defo recommend pressure/vac bleeder. The George-Chick method is ace:

http://www.rovertech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5238

Or at least put a lump of wood under brake-pedal so you don't stroke the m/cyl too far as you pump the pedal (to save seals)?

Slight aside note, our first ZS kit was fitted by Sc4mpi yesterday. I've shamelessly pinched this off themgzs.co.uk

gave it its anual clean

After much debating i had a couple of people intrested in the brake kit, but none that were forthcoming other than a lot of doubters and people with endless questions. So i though sod it ill fit them

got bored yesterday and decided to get the spanners out.







When i get some more time over the summer, ill get the wheels refurbed and painted white since the lacure is cracking and peeling atm.

First time i stammped on the brakes the steering wheel tryed to mate with my face. and the contents of my passenger seat became one with the glove box :laugh:

[agw_01]

DO WANT

I'm keeping my eyes peeled for some callipers at the moment.

[< KEVIN >]

Ok, again i've just went all around the car using up 1L of fluid, over the last couple of days i've used near enough 3L mor than the 1.8L capacity, i'm not convinced its air as there is no air bubbles within the bleed hose on all corners, ive checked and checked. Nothing i've done has made any improvment on the pedal feel. it feels shite

I'll try to describe..
with engine off the pedal feels quite hard, put foot on the brake and start engine, the pedal falls about 2 inches, i give it a few pumps hear hissing down by the pedal(is that norm?), feels rather spongy and not firm at all, still feels the same as the old Ti setup

I'm going to change the master cylinder, its got to be either fooked seals or too small.
though what cylinder?

[Sc4mpi]

Slight aside note, our first ZS kit was fitted by Sc4mpi yesterday. I've shamelessly pinched this off themgzs.co.uk

was about to post them up heh.

caliper clearence with a set of 18 pro races.

[C2K]

How did you find the bleeding Sc4mpi?

Kevin, i'd be suspecting your master cylinder seals then if you can't find air. When Berger's car gained 282's it killed off the Mcyl and no amount of bleeding seemed to firm the pedal up. New mcyl was job done.

I'd try to find a 23.8mm bore 220 Nasp one, presumably a non-abs one as the pipes come out different sides iirc. Think it's best to start a new thread about yours in all honesty.

[Sc4mpi]

How did you find the bleeding Sc4mpi?

Kevin, i'd be suspecting your master cylinder seals then if you can't find air. When Berger's car gained 282's it killed off the Mcyl and no amount of bleeding seemed to firm the pedal up. New mcyl was job done.

I'd try to find a 23.8mm bore 220 Nasp one, presumably a non-abs one as the pipes come out different sides iirc. Think it's best to start a new thread about yours in all honesty.

bled it 9-10times now. pedal has a good feel but im almost 100% there is still air in my abs unit (since the lines were replaced with braided) so we shall see how it goes over the next week