LCD (and plasma) screen are pants!!

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:35 pm

Today i got to see what an HD CRT can really do, it was aquired by a friend in the media business, im not sure how. The unit i saw was a test unit from Toshiba, not a production model. It was used to develope HD-DVD i believe, they created it to ensure a fully stable image whatever that means. Its
about 3 years old, 35 inches and fully 1080 capable. Its basically a large PC monitor.
All i can say is WOW. Much better colours, contrast, reaction times and the image looks a LOT better than a Sony Bravia next to it. The main advantage was that a normal SD source is still fine, in a different league to the LCD/plasmas.
Its main problem is its size of course and weight, but being a fan of PC CRT monitors i know how much better they are at video playback.

Its long been known that the real reason for LCD/plasma screens is to aid the hideous DRM on HD movie disks. Now ive seen a large HD CRT i know how royally they are screwing us over.

munky · Post by **munky** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:40 pm

which is why I still use a 32" sony trinitron tv in my lounge and a 17" crt monitor.

Bravia and Xblack technology has improved things a lot, but lcd still sucks donkey balls.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:40 pm

very few plasma/lcd's ive seen have impressed me , and the only one that did was a toshiba regza 42inch lcd...

all the rest you can see the glitches/artifacts a mile off...

i was looking at a samsung in currys on saturday, fast and furious was on lol, and where a motorbike jumped through the air, the 100hz interpolating was just horrendously bad... 999quid, i dont think so...

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:46 pm

Even an HD source looked better on the HD CRT. Ive recently been forced to buy a 1680x1050 LCD for my PC because its very hard to buy large CRTs now. Im not impressed really. Its ok for desktop work, but nasty for video and gaming.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:48 pm

agreed, im on a 22inch 1680x1050, and its fine for desktop work, but video is not amazing, gaming isnt too bad, and ive only got a cheapy one about 160quid... vga connection...

the only problem with 22inch CRT's is they weigh 3 tons and act as a 200w heater, and require a desk the size of a small country...

Sheaf · Post by **Sheaf** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:56 pm

TBH though, even if the picture quality is better, it still doesn't appeal any more.

CRT tellys are huge and look hideous these days. Monitors more so. LCDs look so much nicer in a room and take up sooo much less space.

As for picture quality, when I got my LCD I was so worried about the quality, the glitches etc etc, but after a very small while you dont even see them. I mean, if you want to be fussy, take a look at the quality in the cinema, you can see massive pixels plus grainy bits flying across the screen if you really look... you dont normally notice though as you're watching the film, not studying the display.

Would never go back to CRT now, mainly because I dont want a hideous looking lump of plastic stuck in the room.

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:40 pm

I notice, but cinema images are usually better than HD. CRTs are big and ugly, but LCDs only look better until you switch them on, then you have this ugly blocky nasty looking image on the screen

PJW · Post by **PJW** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:10 pm

I watched a Sony Bravia running Wall-E trailer on a PS3 in toys R Us yesterday - and it took me breath away. Amazing.

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:14 pm

They are 'ok' with HD sources yes, but awful with SD sources. The HD CRT is still much better though at HD, it truly is.

turbosam · Post by **turbosam** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:51 pm

ive heard of these new crt's your talking about and there very much not in the same way as a normal tv
a old/normal crt tv has 1 tube for the whole screen and these new ones have like a 100 or more or something not sure exactly how many but it 1 tube for every red/green/blue pixel and god knows how many there are to a tv set i think if o remember correctly these tvs are considerbly thinner than a plasma or lcd pioneer have got a working prototype of a 42in wide screen thats only something like 15-25mm deep
sony have already released a 15in moniter like this in the usa think it works out about £1500 so very much not cheap yet but is like all new tech

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:03 pm

This was just a normal single tube CRT. It was just basically a high quality PC monitor, which is much better than a normal TV of course. It just demonstrates that the CRT is not a second rate device, far from it. Its real problem is that an analogue CRT cant have a fully protected data stream (a la HDMI), and could therefore be a way to copy an HD disk. The irony of that is that BD+ DRM is now way open anyway, making the stupidly expensive business of equipping yourself with the gear pointless.

turbosam · Post by **turbosam** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:12 pm

aaah i thought you mite've been talking about the new tech tv's that there working on that are supposed to becoming out at the end of the year or next year sometime

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:17 pm

Not many CRT PC screens can display a real 1080 (mind you hardly any if any LCD HDTVs are a real 1080 either, but thats another story..)), but quite a few can do 720, my advice is if you have a CRT try downloading a real HD movie off the net (its about 20gig though) It looks 100X better than on an LCD.

victor3 · Post by **victor3** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:36 pm

I still use my Cornerstone p1500 RT monitor; won't use anything else. Resolution 1600 x 1280 is still great, despite my eyes. I've tried a couple of TFT screens here but the Cornerstone still wins the day!

http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial ... &WordList=

turbosam · Post by **turbosam** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:16 am

i know pioneer make a couple true 1080 tv's plasma's i think they are but they are also very expensive i think the 50" is 5000-5500 or something like that but it is derived by what home hi-fi mag as the best on the market im pretty sure its won a few years in a row

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:13 am

Best plasma yes, and mags like that seem biased. They know we will never go back to CRT, so ignore the poor SD image issue.

volf · Post by **volf** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:06 am

Ive got a LCD PC moniter which is at 1440x900 60Mhz. when I watch films on it, theres no ghosting at all... but down stairs on these "HD Ready" LCD TVs... the ghosting effect really gets on my case

Hate LCD TV's, but my £100 Cibox PC screen has been nothing but great.

I would have a CRT screen for my PC, If only my desk was big enough!

syzsounds · Post by **syzsounds** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:26 am

Scott wrote:very few plasma/lcd's ive seen have impressed me , and the only one that did was a toshiba regza 42inch lcd...

all the rest you can see the glitches/artifacts a mile off...

Guess what i just bought .. 1080p ..all the knobs and whistles ..Oh and got a PS3 at the same time ( blu ray

)
I'm truly amazed by the picture quality in HD ... GT5 prologue is like playing a film !
However ... Standard sky tv through sucks donkeys whatsits.
Im not paying for sky HD yet either until they get more channels.

Jonny 5 · Post by **Jonny 5** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:15 pm

turbosam wrote:aaah i thought you mite've been talking about the new tech tv's that there working on that are supposed to becoming out at the end of the year or next year sometime

Your talking about SED, no one is really pursuing that for mass production at the moment it seems so end of the rear is rather unlikley.

The CRT vs LCD is an interesting debate. Fortunatley plasma sits nicely in the middle ground and 1080 plasma panels are really being pushed forward to the market.

Problem with SPVA is the nicer colours and viewing angles compromise the motion and input lag (bad for games) compared to the TN panels most LCD monitors use.

BlueRover · Post by **BlueRover** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:34 pm

I reckon they'll ban large plasma tv's as I'm sure a CRT uses less power and since everyone is keen to be green, that's the way. If a digital signal wasn't so compressed the picture would be a lot better. I had hoped that when the analogue switch off was completed that the extra bandwidth would be used for a better digital signal. Nope, this money grabbing government is selling it off to the highest bidder.

EggBeard · Post by **EggBeard** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:39 am

About 2 years ago Samsung launched their Slimfit CRT HDTV, while slightly bulkier than a flat screen, the picture was superb for both HD and SD, not to mention it was £350 for the 32" model.

Seemingly however Joe Public didn't buy them, and as such they sort of vanished, which is a shame.

steb9780 · Post by **steb9780** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Scott wrote:very few plasma/lcd's ive seen have impressed me , and the only one that did was a toshiba regza 42inch lcd....

That's why I went for a 42" 1080p Regza, even SD sources aren't that bad on it.

But I got some settings from a calibrated set off avforums, and that made a huge difference to the SD source picture quality.

Playing Gears of War on the 360 is awesome, just playing splinter cell now and that is class too.

Jonny 5 · Post by **Jonny 5** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:40 pm

EggBeard wrote:About 2 years ago Samsung launched their Slimfit CRT HDTV, while slightly bulkier than a flat screen, the picture was superb for both HD and SD, not to mention it was £350 for the 32" model.

Seemingly however Joe Public didn't buy them, and as such they sort of vanished, which is a shame.

Yeah I see them mentioned sometimes as Amazon onces had them. I think there mor available second hand, I generally have my TV in the corner as it fits the lounge better, here theres no real disadvantage having a tube.

Still Im happy with my Samsung 40M86, silly cheap really compared to what you could get 5 years ago and ideal for games and the transition to HD. Kuro's have dropped significantly now though which are pretty damn impressive TV's

syzsounds · Post by **syzsounds** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:05 pm

steb9780 wrote:
Scott wrote:very few plasma/lcd's ive seen have impressed me , and the only one that did was a toshiba regza 42inch lcd....
That's why I went for a 42" 1080p Regza, even SD sources aren't that bad on it.

But I got some settings from a calibrated set off avforums, and that made a huge difference to the SD source picture quality.

Playing Gears of War on the 360 is awesome, just playing splinter cell now and that is class too.

Dont happen to still have the info do you ?

mkandy · Post by **mkandy** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:16 am

syzsounds wrote:
Scott wrote:very few plasma/lcd's ive seen have impressed me , and the only one that did was a toshiba regza 42inch lcd...

all the rest you can see the glitches/artifacts a mile off...
Guess what i just bought .. 1080p ..all the knobs and whistles ..Oh and got a PS3 at the same time ( blu ray )
I'm truly amazed by the picture quality in HD ... GT5 prologue is like playing a film !
However ... Standard sky tv through sucks donkeys whatsits.
Im not paying for sky HD yet either until they get more channels.

Agreed, GT5 looks seriously cool.

Just bought Ratatouille on Bluray too, reminds me why i have an LCD, looks sooooo good.

rovex · Post by **rovex** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:31 am

The problem is my PC does everything, its also my TV and i use Dscaler to upscale and post process the image, so TV looks better on my PC than it does on a real TV. Im also not into console gaming, PCs have always had better graphics and have been 'HD' and better for about 15 years. Even the latest console games leave me rather cold graphically.
DVD also looks better on the PC, which has been upscaling for years and years. However on an LCD it doesnt look great compared to a PC CRT high resolution monitor.

One thing to consider is that they decided to call it 'High Definition' not 'High Resolution'. Thats because it isnt really very high res at all, and to be honest at times its not that high def either, i guess its all relative. I think its a big rip off.